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 Post subject: Re: Incident with Cuddles
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:47 pm 
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Humans need more zinc than birds do, so products made for humans tend to have too much zinc for birds. It would take some time for it to build up to a toxic level though, and right now the main priority is just to keep her alive. It would be safer to make your own electrolyte solution using salt and sugar, but if you think it's more appropriate to use real Pedialyte you could use it for a short period of time. Just don't make it a day after day thing.

I'm sorry that you lost your bunny, and that life is so difficult in general. Hopefully Cuddles is getting better now - her droppings are better and that's a good sign. Birds frequently don't eat much when they aren't feeling well and this is dangerous if it goes on for very long, but hopefully she will start eating more soon. If you can get her to eat a little bit of plain yogurt, it will help provide probiotics which may help her digestion.



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 Post subject: Re: Incident with Cuddles
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:48 am 
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Chipper...I am sorry to hear about your bunny. I have gotten the impression that you are a caring and loving person. The Universe has it's own plan and we humans can only do our best. The hard part about having pets is that most of the time we outlive them. It seems to me that your pets are lucky to live their time with you.



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 Post subject: Re: Incident with Cuddles
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:56 am 
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Thank you, Peaches mom. I took on me much more than I can handle alone and this is a mistake. Now I will have guilt how little I do for the bunnies and I guess it will mean even less time spent with the child.
thanks Carolyn. I found another egg in the kitchen, a normal egg, but I don't know how long it has been there. The location isn't the one where you look too often.
I have a problem feeding her, because if I hand feed her something, other birds immediately come to join, and she doesn't like a big company right now. In the cage I don't know how to provide a variety of food, it would be just seed and pellet bowl and water, and again, other birds come and start eating with her most of the time so she leaves. And because she is not coming to the table to eat, other birds don't land on the table as well. Nobody eats veggies and such...



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 Post subject: Re: Incident with Cuddles
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:05 am 
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Do you have any guesses WHY she is not feeling well? I wonder if I should take her to another vet, who can do a blood work and such... it's not that I have extra money, I already took her to the vet, but I can't understand why she is not feeling well so long.



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 Post subject: Re: Incident with Cuddles
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:41 pm 
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Will she be happy if you put her in a different room where the others won't bother her? Or in a private cage where you can put your hand through the door to offer her food, and block the others from coming in.



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 Post subject: Re: Incident with Cuddles
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:49 pm 
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I think we finally have an improvement.
I saw that she has interest in eating and got some of the hunger back. She was even seen in the cabinet today which means she is playing again (ok, don't get started on what kind of play it is, I know it). Again, she for some reasons can't stand when other birds come to eat with her most of the time.
I am not sure if she would be happier locked in the cage. I just don't know. I try to provide her a personal bowl when I see that she wants to eat. She even ate some hand fed veggies today and a bit of couscous with eggs. But most desirable are sweet potato chips and Pretty Bird pellets. Bella always flies to my hand that holds whatever I feed to Cuddles. That doesn't help Cuddles but is adorable of Bella. She was also very interested when I held Cuddles wrapped in a towel and fed formula.
I talked to people in the Morning Bird for half hour (imagine that!). They advertized all their products to me (that is fine). I still think that Cuddles' digestion isn't great, so it would be useful to test her. Is it for sure she doesn't have a bad bacteria? remember
she had diarrhea not so long ago? What if she needs probiotics? Maybe she has worms? They mentioned that dropping have to be cultured... I just don't know which vet would do all the necessary tests for me (and how much it's going to cost...)
I ordered Calcium. Wasn't sure which one to get - powder or liquid. Ordered liquid.
I gave her human Calcium, but I am not sure if she digests it. A drop goes in her beak but not her throat, and then she always bite the towel so that Calcium may end up on the towel.
Is SPINACH OK or should be avoided?



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 Post subject: Re: Incident with Cuddles
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:21 pm 
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it was too early to say she improved. Not eating again today :(
Don;t know how it happened but yesterday I fell asleep in the basement and didn't know that for some reasons heater was turned off. At 6am it was 69F in the house. Not good for Cuddles :( Usually it feels much colder in the basement so I don't know why I didn't feel it was getting cold. Must had been really tired.

What probiotic could you recommend?



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 Post subject: Re: Incident with Cuddles
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:52 pm 
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do antibiotics mess up their intestinal flora really bad? Would you guys give antibiotics when necessity is not confirmed?



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 Post subject: Re: Incident with Cuddles
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 9:20 pm 
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Antibiotics wipe out pretty much all the gut flora, the good along with the bad. So it's helpful to give probiotics afterward to help re-establish the good stuff. There's actually some controversy about the effectiveness of probiotics. Some people say you need a species-specific kind (meaning one made especially for cockatiels) and some say that even these won't really recolonize the gut. But the impression I get is that any kind of probiotic is helpful. It might not recolonize the gut itself, but it will help keep the nasty stuff from proliferating while the good stuff re-establishes itself.

We can't be sure whether she has a bacterial infection or not. Probably any local vet could arrange to run tests, whether they're a bird vet or not. You could talk to them about whether they can do it and what it would cost. You wouldn't even need to bring her in, you could just give them some recent droppings to work with. I'm concerned that another 4-hour drive to see the bird vet would be too stressful for her since she's already weakened, but she's obviously not well. So it's a difficult situation.

You don't have to keep her in a separate cage all the time. But it might be helpful if you could put her there occasionally so she can eat without being bothered by the other birds. You'll have to use your own best judgement about what will make her comfortable and encourage her to eat.

I hope she feels better soon. It sounds like she was starting to get better but had a setback. But if you keep her warm maybe she will start to recover again.



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 Post subject: Re: Incident with Cuddles
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:27 pm 
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As a nurse, I sorta have a strong opinion regarding antibiotics in that they should only be used when you have an actual known infection. Antibiotics are not risk free and then there's the whole breeding microbes that are immune to antibiotics thing. So, I wouldn't push for antibiotics unless your vet finds an actual infection or strongly suspects an infection.

I, personally, am all about pro-biotics. I eat a lot of yogurt and suggest it strongly for people who are taking antibiotics. In fact, when taking antibiotics, I suggest eating a good active culture yogurt at least three times a day, just as you would a medication, just as you would the antibiotic, to keep a constant bombardment of the good bugs hitting your GI system as the antibiotic is keeping a constant bombardment of killing off everything it can in your body.

I'm not sure if yogurt is OK for birds, I've read it as an ingredient in some bird bread recipes and what not but since they're not mammals, I'm not sure if the dairy is OK. I know there is a probiotic made specifically for birds online, it comes in a powder form. I bought some from avitec.com because at the time, I was just adding it to their food as a supplement but now that I've run out and am not as entranced with buying new stuff for my birdies as I was when they were new, and given that mine are currently (knock on wood) healthy, I won't get any more unless I need it. Since my birdies haven't been ill, nor on antibiotics, I can't speak to it's efficacy just that it didn't harm my birds and they didn't seem to mind it in their water or sprinkled on their food.

Honestly though, before I'd give Cuddles anything more (besides the calcium which it sounds like she really needs? and the heat and extra tender, loving care, etc), I think another talk to the vet is needed. Is there not another avian vet closer to your home? Four hours is rough.


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