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 Post subject: Silver chasing Emma
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:13 am 
Lovebird
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So, Emma is bonded to Piper (my budgie). They share a flight cage with Silver. Silver has been displaying heart wings for about six weeks,

Silver has been gently wooing Emma for several weeks, which she ignores. She won't even let him preen her.

Last couple of days Silver has been chasing her all over the cage calling loudly and heartwinging. I feel bad for her. It's up the cage bars to the top, across the cage, down the other side, and so on and on.

Should I do anything, or will this pass?

I do have them on thirteen hour nights.



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 Post subject: Re: Silver chasing Emma
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:59 am 
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How long have they been on the 13 hour nights? If it's been less than a week it's too soon for it to have an effect. If it's been more than two weeks then it isn't working.

If you have more than one cage you can put them in different cages. That will stop the amorous pursuit while they're in the cage at least.



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 Post subject: Re: Silver chasing Emma
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:35 am 
Lovebird
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It has been more than a week--more like a month.

I had Silver out for a while, playing with him. I just put him back in, and it's the same thing with the chasing.

I think you may be right about another cage. I hate to do it, but I may have to.



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 Post subject: Re: Silver chasing Emma
PostPosted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:04 pm 
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You can put the cages side by side so it's not a huge separation, just a lack of chasing opportunities.

Some birds just don't respond to the long nights. If the 13 hours a night is continuous (no interruptions) and dark enough to seem like night the whole time, there's not much else you can do with darkness because bumping it up to 14 hours probably isn't going to make a difference. You could try switching over to 24 hours a day of light for a while - I've never tried it, but endless days are said to work on some birds who don't respond to long nights. I'm not sure WHY it works, but my best guess is that it's so unnatural that they don't know what's going on and figure it's not a good time to breed.



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 Post subject: Re: Silver chasing Emma
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:57 pm 
Conure
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If your going with the 24 hour hormone control technique; you might want to look into this product. http://www.exoticdvm.com/releaves


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 Post subject: Re: Silver chasing Emma
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:37 pm 
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Susanne recommends this product but as far as I know she hasn't used it herself. I haven't used it either but I'm pretty dubious about it. It's a blend of red palm fruit oil with organic red raspberry leaves and organic red raspberry extract. Raspberry leaf is an unproven alt-med "remedy" that's used for an assortment of hormone and pregnancy related problems in human women, but birth control isn't one of its uses and honestly I don't know why Harrisons thinks it might help suppress the breeding urge in birds. If you look at the claims on their site you'll notice that they don't say it's been proven to do anything, just that it may help with certain conditions.

Raspberry leaf hasn't been researched thoroughly but the studies so far haven't found it to be effective for its claimed uses in humans. Some people feel that some of Harrisons' recent products have abandoned science in favor of woo-woo, and this is an example of it. They use the term "empirical evidence" because that sounds a lot nicer than "anecdotal claims" which don't fly at all with science-minded people. I like claims that are backed up with objective evidence, and this product doesn't have any. Susanne is more into the alt-med stuff and generally doesn't investigate the claims to determine whether they're true or not.

There's also no evidence that red palm oil (the other ingredient in Releaves) is a 'miracle food' that does a fraction of the stuff it's claimed to do. It IS a good source of beta carotene for poor people in third world countries, but all the other claims look like hype.



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 Post subject: Re: Silver chasing Emma
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:57 pm 
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Is it a booster in time alongside normal hormone reduction? I was reading it and it says under directions for birds, "begin supplementation while providing consistent, continuous light for a total of 72 hours (3 days continuously). After 72 hours, resume normal daylight cycles and continue offering Releaves once daily for up to 6 months."

Isn't that just the nonstop lighting method for hormonal birds? Does it say it will speed up the hormone reduction quicker than without the product if the user were to just apply the continuous daylight alone?



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 Post subject: Re: Silver chasing Emma
PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:31 pm 
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They don't say what the Releaves does, apart from providing unspecified "natural vitamins and precursors" (which are things you get in any food), which MAY help with certain conditions.

RPO provides lots of fat along with some vitamin E and beta carotene, and the E and carotene are easily available from other food sources. Raspberry fruit is yummy and it contains an assortment of vitamins and minerals. Raspberries are kind of expensive but the grocery store price is a LOT cheaper than the $19 per ounce that Harrisons is charging. Raspberry leaf contains... well no one really knows what's special about it because even the herbal people can't figure it out. http://www.herballegacy.com/Corless_Chemical.html

Alt-med remedies are popular and a lot of people believe in them automatically, and I think this is basically a money-making opportunity for the company not a real medicine based on scientific research. Since Dr Harrison is an avian veterinarian, a lot of people will probably assume that this is a proven remedy, but it's not proven at all in humans and even less so in other animals.

I suspect that the REAL 'active ingredient' in Harrisons' recommended program is the continuous light and the Releaves is basically a placebo (for the human not the bird). I don't know what the ideal length of the continuous light period would be, because this is the first time I've heard someone give a specific time frame for it.



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 Post subject: Re: Silver chasing Emma
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:00 am 
Lovebird
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I am leaving things the same for now (retaining the thirteen hour nights) and monitoring things.

Silver chased Emma for a little while late yesterday afternoon. I got him out to sit with me for a while.

Meanwhile, later that day, Piper was getting in Silver's face, bobbing up and down, walking back forth, and chirping at him in the beak to beak position. Silver would tolerate for a bit (seeming to attend to what Piper was saying), then open beak lunge at Piper (didn't hurt him, or seem to be trying to). Then the cycle would repeat. It's so funny to see Piper talking so intensely to Silver and wondering what he thinks he's saying to him.



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 Post subject: Re: Silver chasing Emma
PostPosted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:39 am 
Conure
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Can you to up their nights by one more hour? If that doesn't work than you can always the lights on technique for a couple of days. Sussane says that it works for her. I never actually tried that product but since Sussane recommended it, I thought that it is a good product because I look up to her.

If his hormones are ranging too high for you to handle, you can give them a shallow bowl with 4-6 dummy eggs in the cage. Let them sit on it for 21-28 days and then remove the bowl and give them a 14 hour night. Their hormones will slowly drop down. This technique worked for my extreamly hormonal male, Georgie. He will occasionally do heart wing and slightly tuck his head under his wing to court Marshmallow but that the furthest he will go.


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